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Susan is on the show today and we cover a lot of interesting topics that we haven't gone in depth on the show before such as: Building websites to drive traffic to your Amazon listings, link building for websites and for Amazon listings, Google SEO, Amazon SEO and more. If you'd like to hear some unique ideas on how to drive more traffic to your listings you'll want to listen to the conversation from this episode.
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Intro: Hello everyone, Chris Guthrie here. And in today’s episode, I speak with Susan. And we cover things like driving traffic to your own Amazon listings, building your own niche and authority-style websites to drive traffic to your own listings. We talk about Amazon SEO, Google SEO, and a whole lot of other topics that we don’t normally cover on the show. So I think you’re going to enjoy this episode. Stay tuned and tell us what you think. Let’s start the show.
Chris Guthrie: Hello everyone, Chris Guthrie here, host of Sellercast. And today I have Susan on the show as well. Susan, welcome
Susan: Hello Chris, great to talk to you, glad to be here.
Chris Guthrie: Yes, I’m so excited to talk to you. I’ve seen you on Facebook, and we’ve talked a little bit back-and-forth. And we’ve finally scheduled this down. And we’ve got the time to chat. So I’m so excited to talk to you. Let’s get into some of the starting questions. How long have you been selling on Amazon for?
Susan: My first product went live July 19th, 2014. I remember because I was sitting at ASM3 and was very excited to make my first sale while I was sitting there.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. So you had previously gotten your units sent out. And then you’re at the event conference type thing. And then you got your first sale.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. So then what were you doing before you started selling on Amazon? Anything related to e-commerce that led you to get into this path?
Susan: I had been doing SEO from, boy, about 2003 to 2014. I started with general search engine optimization. I did pages to earn money with AdSense. I did some affiliate. I did some client work. So I was pretty conversant with ranking on Google. And as you know, 2012, 2013 were pretty rocky years for Google. So I decided I needed to diversify my income stream. I still do work on Google SEO, but I also do Amazon SEO and use that for myself.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, yeah, so we have similar backgrounds because that’s kind of how I got started as well, i.e. building and ranking websites and AdSense, Amazon affiliate stuff etc. So basically, once the Panda and Penguin algorithm updates occurred with Google, you were like, “Okay, let’s look at something else.” And that’s what led you to e-commerce and selling on Amazon.
Susan: Actually, it was after that. With Panda, all my sites improved in rank. And it was a good thing for me. And Penguin didn’t affect me at all. I got caught in a very, very minor algorithm change to anybody else. But it was material to me because it took away 90 percent of my income, the Click-Fraud Cloud cover switch that happened in February, March 2014. We eventually recovered from it, but it was pretty rocky at the time.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, so any time a massive income shake-up occurs, it makes you think, “Okay, what do I need to diversify or go into something else?” So that’s how you got into that. And I’m curious. Because you had this background with Google SEO, maybe we can talk a little bit about Amazon SEO as well. This is the one thing I was curious about. Were you using the existing sites that you had built to help drive traffic to any of your Amazon listings when you first got started? Or was it all just pure, organic Amazon traffic that helped you get your first few sales?
Susan: I can talk about that because I did use a large private blog network (PBN) that I had to help me rank my Amazon listing on Google. But that’s not how I got my Amazon listing ranked. And I thought it helped while I was doing it. But when that PBN network crashed and I lost it, my Amazon listing for that first product went from #11 to #13. I had done Google work in getting it ranked #2 on Google for a very major, very competitive term. And when that went away to nothing, it didn’t impact my sales at all and didn’t materially affect my Amazon rank.
Chris Guthrie: Interesting. I do want to actually dive in a little bit about Google SEO and whether you should or shouldn’t rank your listings on Google. But just to clarify for people that might not be familiar, PBN is short for private blog network. Basically, there’s a bunch of different blogs in various niches. And then you have those links pointed back at some destination, such as your Amazon listing. And then that can help improve rankings. But then Google made an algorithm update that targeted those tactics specifically a little while back.
Susan: It targeted the specific network I was involved with. It wasn’t what I owned. It was the one I participated in with other people. We had 500 blogs. For example, assume I was ranking for dog food. Assume it was a dog food thing. Then the blogs would all be related to dog food reviews and things. And I just had a very simple thing what I did for people that do want to try this, and that was I didn’t use any anchor text. In other words, I didn’t link the word ‘dog food’ back to my listing. I just used a canonical URL that had the appropriate keywords in it and did a plain read-more-at link. And there were about 500 links. … #2 for a term that wasn’t dog food but was about as competitive as dog food. It didn’t do a lot for sales. My sales were coming organically through Amazon. I do get sales from a YouTube video that I have ranked on the page, on page 1 of Google, using those same techniques.
But what I would do if I was doing it again and was going to focus on Google with a PBN is I would focus for the keyword plus the term ‘reviews’ because Google searchers aren’t buyers yet. They’re doing research on a product. Amazon searchers are buyers. So when you are ranking on Google, basically, you want to rank for research terms, like what is the best such and such, or IAMS dog food versus Purina, or reviews and that type of thing – just the same way you’re building an affiliate site.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, that’s great. That’s the entirety of what I used to do when I was building and ranking websites targeting Amazon’s affiliate program. It was all just product review type websites because I found that same thing that hey, … from Google in general they might be looking for anything. They might be buyers, but they might not be. And usually, they aren’t. But when they’re searching for reviews, then they definitely are buyers. And that was really eye-opening for me back in 2008 or 2009 or something like that. It was so long ago that I’ve forgotten that. That’s great.
Are you still using PBNs to help rank in Google? You just mentioned that YouTube has helped you with some sales, but your Google ranking hadn’t. So is that something you think people should still focus on?
Susan: I think when you get to a certain point, yes. But first, what you need to do is rank on Amazon. And all people coming from SEO think, “Oh, if I rank on Google, I’ll rank on Amazon.” But ranking on Amazon is different than ranking on Google. In fact, it’s similar that they’re both looking for a good user experience. But the type of user experience that they are looking for when they’re ranking on Amazon is different than the user experience on Google. So what I would advise – and I do advise my clients because I do work with people helping them increase their Amazon sales – is to focus on Amazon first. And then after Amazon, solely on Amazon, look at paid traffic from other sources. I do caution them if they do want to use a PBN that they make sure they use an intermediary link – not because it’s going to cause a problem on Amazon, meaning that you’re going to link to another website in the middle.
But what you want to be able to do is eventually, I think the goal of every Amazon seller should be to build a robust, off-Amazon business. And if you link directly to your Amazon listing, then all those links you build just go to the listing. But if you link to an intermediary page, you can then redirect that intermediary page from your Amazon listing to your own site and get the benefit of all that link-building work you’ve done where it really counts, where you’re going to make more of the money for yourself.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. Right now, though, when you are doing those intermediary pages, they just point to Amazon. But just you want to be able to have the ability to go back and point them somewhere else, basically.
Susan: It depends on the product. I have some products that are at the level of maturity where I am doing significant enough off Amazon sales. But for someone who is just starting and building their Amazon business, I would say that point the links. If you’re going to do that to Amazon… But I wouldn’t recommend doing it. But some people feel very passionately about it, and I would say if you do it, do use an intermediary page.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, and that depends on the product, as you mentioned. But the reason for that is so that you can try and presell them before they actually get to Amazon so that the traffic you do send is more highly qualified and more likely to convert, right? Is that the idea behind that?
Susan: No, that’s different. That’s just what I’m doing: funnels. The reason that I use the intermediary page when I’m doing PBNs is because all PBNs are sending is link juice. They’re really not sending buyers. So I use the intermediary page so that I don’t waste the links because you can then change it. If you have 500 links going to the intermediary page that goes to your listing, you just then change the intermediary page from pointing to your listing. You can actually do it as a 301 redirect to your hosted e-commerce site later on.
About what you said about qualifying them before they get to your Amazon listing, it’s good, but sending qualified traffic to your Amazon listing isn’t really important. What’s important is that they’re serious buyers who are looking to buy not necessarily your product. Amazon rewards you in the algorithm as long as they buy on Amazon. Whether or not when you go from outside, you get all those additional product choices, Amazon will reward you even if they’re not buying your product. They’ll reward you for buying somebody else’s. If you drive traffic, it buys.
And that’s one of the ways Amazon is different. Amazon wants to make the most money. And if by having your page out there, your page drives traffic to something else, they’re going to show their own ads for your page in more different places because they know you’re an attractive product, which is going to bring people to Amazon.
Chris Guthrie: Interesting. I think you’re the first person that said that rather than just the traffic needing to convert on that specific product, it can matter if it just converts in general on Amazon.
Susan: I probably shouldn’t have said that in public [laughs].
Chris Guthrie: [Laughs]
Susan: A lot of us talk about it in private. I probably shouldn’t have said it in public, but think about what Amazon wants. What Amazon wants is to make money. And they want to make money from your product. And they want to make money from other products. So if you have an attractive product that when someone follows a link into Amazon from your product, and they spend money on Amazon, you’re going to be rewarded. And it may not be rewarded with a rank boost on your product. It may be rewarded that when Amazon sellers looking for a specific product are retargeted, Amazon will show them your product in those ads on Facebook or all over the Internet because they know your product drags people into buying.
Chris Guthrie: Oh, that’s very interesting. Well, you’ve said that you probably shouldn’t have said it in public, but I’m going to go ahead and do the no takesy backsies.
Susan: No, I got it. No, I got it, I got it. I was sort of teasing about that when you said I was the first one to say it. But the issue is that it’s an example of think about what Amazon wants. And Amazon wants to sell things.
Chris Guthrie: Yup, that’s the general advice that I give to people too. If you’re thinking about what Amazon wants in general – they want to make money – then frame that around how you should think about what you’re doing in your business. And that can help you answer a lot of questions that you might not know what to do. That’s great.
The other thing I’m curious about is you work with clients. But you also work on your own Amazon business. What are you primarily focused on these days? You mentioned before that part of your goal is to make sure you’re not on Amazon. And it sounds like you have some of your business not on Amazon as it is. Are you primarily focused on picking and launching your products? Or are you working on building websites since you have that background where you can build up content sites, and then you’re driving traffic and selling your products on your own websites. What are you focused on these days? I’m curious about how that’s split up.
Susan: I’m primarily focused on learning how to live without sleep. It really depends on where I am. I’m heading into two weeks of trade shows. So for the next month and a half, my #1 focus is going to be new products. My #1 focus for the past month has probably been building up affiliate websites for my products and to help build up the off-Amazon presence. But I’m moving now into identifying and selecting new products. My listing process and launch process is fairly systematized, so that after I have gotten the new products, I’ll be doing firefighting in terms of stuff getting stuck in customs. Boy, I’ve had fun with that. When you’re dealing with products, you have all that type of stuff. But I’m heading into product sourcing because really, I need to have all of that lined up by the beginning of June to be ready for the holiday season next year.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, that’s great. So then I want to touch on the affiliates site thing that you mentioned. Are you using a separate Amazon account or just the same Amazon account besides your seller account for your Amazon Associates?
Susan: No, I understand what you’re saying, and I’m trying to determine how to answer that because of course it is against Amazon’s terms of service to have multiple seller accounts. There is no issue at all. Amazon is okay with you using the same email address for an affiliate account that sells products on a seller account with an email address.
Chris Guthrie: That’s what I was trying to get at.
Susan: You are certainly allowed to do that. There is no penalty. So if you do a great job at it, you can get back most of that referral commission into your own pockets, if you get it up to 10 percent or something. But what’s more important is … I don’t focus on it for getting affiliate income. But it’s a really great way to track where your traffic is coming from because you can do up to 500 different affiliate codes on your account. So if you have a Facebook funnel, and the Facebook funnel always goes to a page on a certain affiliate site for a certain product, you can then track and see the clicks that come in through that site because you don’t get conversion data from Amazon. But you can track your funnel data in terms of how many people saw it and then how many people clicked through on the funnel. And then you can look through your affiliate reports and see how many people bought with that affiliate ID. So by using your affiliate code, you can get really good information about how your off-Amazon campaigns are working.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. And for those that aren’t familiar with the Associates program, it’s volume-based. I believe it starts at 4 percent and goes up to 8.5 percent. It’s all based on the volume. I think you have to sell over 3000 items to get to that top tier. And certain categories are fixed at certain rates, just like how on Seller Central, there are different rates that you might be paying in fees. Some categories that you refer on Amazon Associates program are going to have different rates. And coming to your point about the 500 tracking IDs, you can actually request more once you hit that limit because that was something I ran into on affiliate sites.
Let’s talk a little bit more about those affiliate sites. Are you trying to build really specific narrow niche sites? Or are you trying to build an authority, much larger site with a lot of content, and people that you’ve hired write really great stuff? Or are you going for smaller things?
Susan: Both. I have affiliate sites for each product that I’m primarily using for tracking information. I actually have multiple affiliate sites for each product because I want a different affiliate site for each channel that I’m sending. And then I’m also building larger affiliate sites that I’m actually using for general affiliate income. And my niche was more than my products.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, that’s great. So you also make money from additional sources on those sites, beyond just the Amazon affiliate site.
Susan: Of course.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. I think the thing is that a lot of times, especially people that are listening that might be newer sellers, they get really narrowly focused on “Okay, I’m selling on Amazon, so I can make money on just Amazon.” They don’t think about the opportunities of driving revenue from perhaps digital products or other types of revenue streams if they’re trying to build up content-type sites like you have. So I think it’s a good eye-opener.
Probably, I already know the answer to this question, but let’s talk about your actual sales on Amazon. Are you able to share where you’re at with sales or what you’re doing with some of your products?
Susan: I’ll just say I’m doing pretty well. I don’t like to share numbers because there’s a lot of junk out there about the numbers. I think the easiest earnings report in the world to fake is an Amazon earnings report because you can inflate the sales price with giveaways. People do fake buys. People do all kinds of things. So there’s a lot of stuff out there in terms of numbers that’s meaningless. When you wholesale, you may have a 10 percent profit margin. So it may look like your numbers are really great. So I generally don’t talk about numbers other than to say I’m doing pretty well. I have a lot of products, and they’re doing well. And I’m adding more.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. I like that. I like that answer too again because people might not be aware of that, but I see the income reports people post in their Facebook groups. I did a million dollars last month. And then it’s like okay, well, how much of that did you keep? [Laughs]
Susan: And I think a lot of it is intimidating because people will sit there and see that and say, “Oh, my God, I can’t do that.” And they may not realize that’s posting that they hit $10,000 could actually have more in their pocket than somebody who’s posting that they hit $50,000 or $75,000 this month. So to people out there that are listening that are newbies, it’s definitely possible. And don’t allow yourself to be intimidated by numbers. But do allow yourself to be inspired because it is definitely possible to sell six figures a month or seven figures a month in certain times of the year...
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, I love this. There are several different things I want to ask you, actually. But we’ll save this other one that I have in mind for the end. I wanted to ask this: Because you’ve been launching so many different products – and that’s even something you’re focused on today in terms of building up sites, ranking those sites, driving traffic from those sites as well – what are you doing when it comes to finding a product that isn’t really doing well? You’ve launched it. You said you have a system for launching it. Maybe we can talk a little bit about your system as well. But when do you make that decision, “Okay, this product just isn’t going to work. And sometimes they don’t work. And let me just do a different one.”
Susan: I haven’t killed one yet, basically, because when I do products, they all link with each other. So I do a lot of cross-promoting and in a certain brand. I have multiple brands, but in a brand I do cross-promoting. For example, the first product that I launched was in a highly competitive category. And I got to page 1. And as soon as I got there, it was war with people doing negative review campaigns. So then I ended up doing more giveaways. And then it’d be negative review campaigns. And it just got really expensive.
So what I decided to do after about six months was just stop promoting it. And it stayed there. And it was mid-page to top of page 3. So right before Christmas then, I did a new program promoting it and got it back up again. So I did sales in the holidays. The attack started again. And now I have stopped promoting it again, and I’m just going to let it sit, if that makes sense.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, once you get up to that top level, then everyone comes out on the attack, at least in super competitive areas, which is what I’m assuming where you’re at for that specific product released.
Susan: And it can be tough with the super competitive products. And they can make money, but you need to be prepared for evil things.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah. I’ve even been thinking too that as we talk, we could probably do a two-part episode. So maybe what we’ll do is we’ll focus on some other topics. And then maybe you can come back again, and we can dive into some others. I wanted to talk a little bit about your launch strategy. You have a system that you have for that. You have a system for picking your products. Do you want to briefly talk about those?
Susan: Which would you prefer me to talk about first?
Chris Guthrie: Let’s go with the picking, and then we’ll go to the launching after that.
Susan: Okay, my picking is not systematized.
Chris Guthrie: Okay, then let’s go with the launching instead. We’ve had people talk about how they select products before. Let’s focus on launching.
Susan: Okay, well, the first thing I do with the launch is I get reviews, which I do by building my own email list. And I get a core number of reviews before I do a launch. And I call that my soft launch. And I do it through getting reviews. Then I do a hard launch where I do giveaways. I determine how many I’m going to need to rank. And I do a giveaway of a certain number a day until I get to where I am. And then organic sales start coming in, and I monitor it. And we’ll still do giveaways probably for the first two or three months. Depending on it, the giveaways are anywhere from 5 to 30 day depending on how competitive the product is. I’ve been able to make that easier by finding Facebook groups that are analogous to a product.
For example, if it was a dog food group, if I found pet lovers, I’d go to pet lovers or animal shelters and offer a coupon at 50 to 90 percent off to their customers – which is generally better than the people that do hardcore Amazon reviews who are looking for it for free. And that can be a great source of initial traffic. For example, if you have a pet product and you go to an animal rescue page and say, “Hey, we’ll give you $5 for every one of these you people buy,” and also give them a $5 or $10 coupon, you’re going to get some interested customers first. So it’s not rocket science, but that’s basically what I do.
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, that’s great. So how do you handle the actual distribution of those codes? Do you have some sort of a signup for an email list first, and then you’ll get the code? Or do you show them the Amazon listing …?
Susan: No, I actually run a review service that provides people with email lists. I collect it through my service, collect the names if they’re not already on my list. Depending on the product, they probably are. And then I just send them the code directly.
Chris Guthrie: Okay, cool. So you’ve got multiple different lists kind of segmented out by different interests. And then you can use those for your own products and for clients and stuff as well.
Another question I had was just what are your general goals for this business? It sounds like after the 2012-2013 Google updates, it was just, “Okay, let me find something else that’s more stable.” And you’ve done well with Amazon now and also off Amazon. What are you primarily thinking about in terms of your long-term goals for your ecommerce business?
Susan: I want to continue to build the brand. I’m not looking to sell in the interim. I’m in this because I enjoy doing it. It doesn’t mean that I won’t sell in the interim at some point. But right now I just want to continue building the brand. And I’d like to get… I’m in two stores off Amazon now. I’d love to see the brand in more stores.
Chris Guthrie: Oh, great. So are you selling in physical bricks-and-mortar stores? Or are you referring to online stores that you set up like Shopify?
Susan: I’m in two physical, bricks-and-mortar stores. They’re not major chain stores. They’re local stores that specialize in the niche that I sell in.
Chris Guthrie: Okay, so how did you actually do that? Was it just as simple as contacting them and saying, “Hey, I have this product, and it does well on Amazon.”
Susan: One also has a Facebook group. They’re both local. And I would give free coupons to her customers every time I launched. And I sent her the product every time I launched. And eventually, she found a product that she fell in love with. And then, after falling in love with one, my entire line was in her store.
The other one, I just brought a customer that had found me through that other place and said, “Hey, I shop here. And I was telling the owner about you. I think you’re great. You should go down there.” So I brought her down a box of my stuff. And she’s now selling it as well.
So it’s been very direct. It’s not the system of finding buyers and approaching them. But that’s because I have niched a specific product, and there are stores that specialize in that niche. So you can go down and capitalize it, for example. There are local pet stores in your area. Or if you’re selling coffee and tea supplies, you can go into the local niche coffee shops and say, “Hey, I have these really cool things. Would you like to sell them?”
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. So in those cases, you had a little bit of a warm introduction in a sense. You had already worked with a Facebook group. And then you also had someone say that you’re great. And that helped with those.
Susan: Well, the Facebook group, I had to do the warm introduction too by saying, “Hey, can I give away this stuff to your people.” And it took me about nine months of doing that. And then she was like, “Hey, okay, let’s go further with this.” And then the other one was a warm introduction. You can see the warm introduction if you’re looking for that because I’m sure if you’re talking particularly about local stores, you know people that go in there. And they can just say, “Hey, do you carry such and such product?”
Chris Guthrie: Yeah, that’s great. So then are you currently focusing on trying to get more stores? Or do you just want to continue reaching out to those Facebook groups or Facebook pages and then building those relationships that way, before even bothering going to the bricks-and-mortar stores?
Susan: I’m happy right now with the two I have. I would eventually like to be in more. But I’m focusing more on building the brand because I don’t think I’m big enough yet for the bigger stores to be really interested in me.
Chris Guthrie: That makes sense. In this way too, they can serve as a proof of concept as well so you can say on Amazon and also in bricks-and-mortar and these two locations type of thing.
Chris Guthrie: Okay. I wanted to ask you too about the mistakes that you’ve made along the way. When you’ve been selling on Amazon after coming from Google, what are some of the things that you found? Was it just poor product picks sometimes? I know you mentioned you haven’t had to kill anyone off. But I wanted to know what problems you’ve had along the way and how you resolved those?
Susan: That’s a good question because I generally don’t think of things as problems. I think of them as learning opportunities. For example, in my first season, in the fall of 2004, I had just about sold out my initial order quantity. And I placed another order so I’d be ready for Christmas. And I had 284 units left in the middle of October. And I had a customer that had a problem, so I fixed it the way I usually do: by sending the customer a coupon code. It was one customer, one code. It did not reserve the inventory – you can see where this is going – because I just didn’t think it was one customer. And this was before we had the one-time-use codes that can go for this. So I was on the phone with my VA. And I went and I checked something. And this was 40 minutes later. And my inventory was gone. I had nothing left. So I immediately called Seller Central. And it was a pain in the neck. I tried to cancel them all. We were able to cancel half of them.
And again, because I was concerned about my seller metrics being relatively new, what I did was that for the half that I cancelled, I sent an email too saying, “I’m really sorry. This is what happened. It was a private code that went public. And I’d like to honor this for you because I know you were innocent. You really expected that you would get this product for free. So what I’d like to do is when it comes back in stock – which will be approximately the second week in November – I’d like to send you a code at that time. Please respond back to me if you are interested. Of the 140 emails that I sent out, 3 people got back to me being really nasty. They were like, “What? What? You can’t do that to me.” And then about 80 percent of them thought it was great and wrote back absolutely wonderful things. Some of them even posted online in the coupon sites where people were then complaining, “It’s all sold out. How come we can’t get it? But hey, this is what happened. And the seller is so great.” In the end, about 65 of those people did take me up on it. And that was my relaunch when it came back. So I was able to stretch the product sales out with that 140 that I could get back. So I never really went out of stock. I had to raise the price to twice what it was selling at, which did hit my rank a little bit. But I was still able to be on page 1. And then when they came back in, I was able to use this very, very warm list of people, who already thought I was an absolutely terrific person, to use for a burst of sales velocity at that time. So while I made a mistake in terms of not reserving my inventory, I was able to turn it around into a really good opportunity. And I’ve since talked to and worked with people that have had that as a problem. Some of them don’t catch it and don’t have time to cancel it. If that does happen to you and you sell out right away, then what a great press release! It sold 20,000 units in a day. Make sure you take a screenshot of it. I guess you can spin anything into something that is going to be productive.
The other mistake I probably made was not outsourcing some of the busy work early enough. I was very proprietary and felt that I needed to do everything myself. Even though I had two VAs that have been with me since 2010 that are really reliable, I was like, “I don’t want to let them into my seller account.” But they are slowly taking up tasks for me. So that is freeing me up to be more strategic and less tactical.
Chris Guthrie: That’s great. Just to clarify on the VAs, was the first thing that they starting helping out managing customer service? Or are they doing something else as well?
Susan: Mainly customer service. They’re Filipino. I’m concerned about them interacting with customers because they’re obviously not English-speaking. But I have standard form letters that go out when there’s good seller feedback that needs to be converted to a product review when there’s been a refund that happens. So they send out form letter. They fill out the information and send those out for me. So I don’t need to worry about that day-to-day maintenance. And if it’s a big deal, it gets escalated to me to help with.
Chris Guthrie: Awesome. Well, Susan, this is great. I think we need to wrap it up here for time. But thank you so much for coming on. I think there is plenty more we could talk about. So perhaps again, we’ll invite you back on. And thank you so much for sharing your expertise and some of these unique nuggets on this episode.
Susan: Great. Okay, well, it was great talking to you, Chris.
Outro: All right, that was the episode with Susan. Hopefully, you enjoyed that conversation. We covered some new items that we don’t normally discuss in the show. And I think that they were helpful for you, especially if you’re further along in the game and you’re looking at further diversifying ways to either drive traffic to your listing or other types of strategies you can employ to grow your business.
So thanks so much for tuning in. And if you enjoyed the show, feel free to leave us a review. You can go to Sellercast.com/itunes. And we’ll see you in the next episode.